From SAHM to Unpaid Work Advocate: Lori Sugarman-Li on the Invisible Work of Moms
In this episode of Mom to MORE®, host Sharon Macey talks with Lori Sugarman-Li, author, coach, and advocate for the value of unpaid care work. Lori shares how one shocking rejection led her to champion a global conversation about the invisible work that keeps families and homes running.
From corporate marketing to full-time caregiving, Lori’s journey shows how motherhood can be a place of growth, purpose, and reinvention. She and Sharon explore the mental load moms carry, how language shapes family dynamics, and simple ways to make care visible and shared.
Tune in for a powerful conversation about motherhood, equity, and the work that makes life work.
[00:00] Introduction
[01:10] From marketing to full-time caregiving
[02:30] Finding purpose and fulfillment at home
[04:00] The insurance rejection that changed everything
[08:45] What invisible work really means
[11:20] How culture shapes the value of care
[15:00] Teaching kids and partners to see the work
[20:00] Reframing chores as acts of gratitude
[21:40] The inspiration behind Our Home
[23:40] New language for family teamwork
[31:00] What MORE means to Lori today
Meet my guest Lori Sugarman-Li:
Our Home: The Love, Work and Heart of Family — available at Barnes & Noble and wherever books are sold.
Instagram: @ourhomeourpride
LinkedIn: Lori Sugarman-Li
Looking for More? Join the Mom To MORE® Community and grab your freebie: 6 Ways To Reinvent Yourself Beyond Motherhood at momtomore.com
Follow @momtomore on Instagram, Facebook and now on Pinterest. @Sharon Macey on LinkedIn.
Keep an eye out for episode #51 of the Mom to MORE® podcast—an inspiring archive episode featuring Joan Hornig, the trailblazing jewelry designer and philanthropist behind Philanthropy is Beautiful® and Pave The Way®. Coming soon - you won’t want to miss it ♥
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Sharon Macey (01:43)
Welcome back to a new episode of Mom to More.
Okay, guys, this is such a treat today. My guest this week has a fabulous story and it all started with a rejection.
which will probably make your jaw drop because it did mine. Because stuff like this is still happening in America today, which is crazy. But first, Lori Sugarman Lee believes deeply in the power of families and is a passionate voice in the cultural shift aiming to articulate the value and visibility of unpaid work. And all of you moms out there, you know what I'm talking about. Her career as a communication strategist combined with a decade devoted to full-time care for family,
her community and children's charities worldwide served as the inspirational backdrop for her professional relaunch as a coach, speaker and author. She is dedicated to fostering meaningful conversations within families, encouraging them to contemplate how they care for one another in their shared space. This is so cool. Lori and her husband and two sons are Canadian born and live steps from Lake Michigan in Chicago. Hello Lori, I'm so thrilled you're with me today.
Lori Sugarman-Li (02:50)
I'm thrilled as well. Thanks for such a kind introduction.
Sharon Macey (02:54)
Thank you. Well, first, we have to give a big shout out to Mom 2.0, which is where we met this past spring in Orlando. And you had those super colorful pants on. You could not be missed.
Lori Sugarman-Li (03:03)
Yeah,
that was a fantastic conference. my gosh, I came away so inspired.
Sharon Macey (03:10)
Yeah, it's my second year and it's really incredible.
All right, so we know you have two boys and you dedicated a decade to full-time care of your family. Why was this time of leaning into family life important for you to have? And also was it intentional or was it something you just fell into?
Lori Sugarman-Li (03:29)
You know, it's so interesting. We were living in Canada at the time and I was in the middle of what ended up being a 15 year ⁓ paid career in marketing and strategy. I started my career at Kraft Foods and then ⁓ the 2.0 of my paid career was at Four Seasons Hotels and Resorts, which was a fabulous gig prior to having kids. Yes. And then when I had my first baby,
Sharon Macey (03:49)
can appreciate that.
Lori Sugarman-Li (03:54)
⁓ You know, the Canadian mat leave, which might be interesting for a lot of your listeners, is a year long. And it's wonderful for many reasons, you really, really sink into it, but the return to work is actually a little bit more complicated after that much time. And the flexibility that I was looking for in negotiating with Four Seasons just wasn't available at the time. And the job as it had been for me involved so much travel.
just wasn't right with a new baby for what our vision of our family dynamic was gonna be. And I spoke to my husband about it and we decided that I would make the very meaningful shift from the economy of commerce to the economy of care. And I took all of the motivation and dedication that I had always applied to my paid work and applied that to my unpaid work. And much to my surprise, I was...
really thriving in this role. And I became very involved, as you had said, in my community and in charities and local stuff. And then we had the opportunity to move internationally. So when my two boys were two and four, we moved to London and had a beautiful experience there, but very much cemented by
Sharon Macey (05:05)
How
Lori Sugarman-Li (05:10)
my involvement and raising my hand for everything at the school, in the community, you that's how you form new connections. We had a second opportunity then to move internationally with my husband's company to Chicago, which is where we are based now. And every time we move, we have to sort of review our foundational family documents, wills, insurance, because of course it's different in every country.
And when we moved to Chicago, my husband said to me, look, we don't have any kind of network here. We don't know anyone. We don't have family, friends, anything. You know, your role in the family is so critical. If, God forbid, anything happened to you, he said, I would have to take a leave and jump in. And so he said, let's look at getting you disability insurance.
Sharon Macey (05:59)
I want to pause right there because before we jump into that, because that is sort of the crux of how everything began. But I want to backtrack a little because when we first spoke, you mentioned that you were surprised by the fact that you loved leaning into family life. So talk about that.
Lori Sugarman-Li (06:03)
crux.
I always knew I would be a mom and have a family. It was never a question, but I think I grew up imagining always being involved in paid work as well. And so it just sort of like the filling of my heart was sort of, you know, unexpected to the degree that it was and also,
the contributions that I could make in that role, the growth I experienced in that role was sort of like just unexpected. think you don't know when you're going into that role how meaningful and impactful it's gonna be.
Sharon Macey (06:50)
So many moms
feel that they're not working, therefore they're not being productive, therefore they're not learning anything, but that could not be further from the truth.
Lori Sugarman-Li (07:01)
couldn't be further. And one of the things, we'll talk more about my role as a coach now, but one of the things I really encourage moms to do is, know, we're so focused, especially in those early years of capturing all of the milestones that our children achieve, right? And we have the baby book with all the like dates when they first smiled and rolled over and all the beautiful, meaningful things.
Sharon Macey (07:23)
The
Lori Sugarman-Li (07:25)
I encourage moms to have a similar booklet or list for their own trajectory into this role. every now and again, reflect and say, how have I grown? How have I evolved? What skills have I curated in this role? And I was really doing that and thinking, this is fabulous. And also, I had so many friends.
Sharon Macey (07:34)
Great idea.
Lori Sugarman-Li (07:52)
exceptional women who were focused on unpaid work and doing phenomenal things in that role. And so for me, in my bubble, it was very, very much valued.
Sharon Macey (08:04)
Yeah, which is so nice to hear. And I also love what you said earlier. You went from the economy of commerce to the economy of care. I think that is a beautiful way of phrasing just part of this huge job that you do
as the home parent.
Lori Sugarman-Li (08:20)
Well, thank you. I think it's so essential in our quest to have this work, and it is tons of work, be visible and valued. It's so critical for us to have a better understanding of the impact of this work if we do want involvement by the entire family and for it not just to sit on the shoulders of women.
Sharon Macey (08:45)
⁓ So getting back to the crux of this, I want to jump to your personal journey
Lori Sugarman-Li (08:48)
Yes.
Sharon Macey (08:50)
of becoming an advocate for the value of unpaid labor, because this is such an enduring issue that just transcends the generations. Right? All So let's go back to the beginning and that moment with the insurance guy. Go.
Lori Sugarman-Li (09:05)
So my husband and I decided that we would try to get disability insurance for me so that we would have a safety net if he were to leave his job. So we went through all the rigmarole of filling in the forms and the health exams and all the stuff that you need to do only for the insurance agent to summarily reject me, saying to me, I don't understand why you need disability insurance. You're just a housewife. Right, right, right, right, right.
Sharon Macey (09:30)
Hair on fire. Yeah, hair on
fire.
Lori Sugarman-Li (09:33)
immediate
smoke coming out of my nose and I was like, what? And it occurred to me in that moment, he did not understand the societal impact of this work and that this concept of disability insurance really only applies to people who are generating revenue. And he suggested to me that if something were to happen to me, because there's no loss of revenue, there's no
Sharon Macey (09:37)
Excuse me? Yeah.
Lori Sugarman-Li (10:02)
loss. And it was a moment that changed my life forever. I couldn't unhear it. I couldn't unknow it. And that began my quest where I started to find a lot of other phenomenal people, mostly women, in this work of talking about and making more visible and valued the work of care, the work that is invisible, the work that is unpaid.
Sharon Macey (10:30)
So let's just give a couple of examples of what is this invisible work. We all do it and you're gonna say it and everyone listening is gonna go, yeah, yeah, I do all that.
Lori Sugarman-Li (10:40)
So two big buckets really. First of all, so much of the work of care of our family, care of our household, care of our investments like our car and whatnot is done when children or other family members are at work, at school, asleep, at play. And so it's happening sort of in the shadows, right? Like women are...
you probably have a load of laundry in at 6 a.m. and you're probably putting the dishes away at 11 p.m. and it's unseen. It all sort of happens magically. When my husband opens his drawer, the clean socks are just there, right?
Sharon Macey (11:19)
It's sort of like the Tooth Fairy.
Lori Sugarman-Li (11:21)
that's actually another terrific example, right, is all those sort of magical moments.
all the holidays that we plan, all the birthdays that we plan. And then the other big bucket is that so much of this work is invisible because it's in the mental, it's in the emotional. And so there isn't anything sort of tangible, there's nothing on the counter, on the bed that you can see, but it's this constant outpouring of care and concern that we bestow on those that we love.
remembering their preferences, remembering the schedules, always showing up when somebody needs a ride or somebody forgot a lunchbox or whatever it is. It's this like ticker tape that's constantly running through our heads. Again, mostly women. We know from research that 75 % of unpaid care globally, this is, I should say, this is really not a US phenomenon. This is a global phenomenon.
75 % of unpaid work rests on the shoulders of women, but that only measures what we can see. It doesn't even measure the mental and emotional load, which we know is an awesome load that rests on the shoulders of women. And I should also say that in pairing with that, have five fewer hours of leisure time per week than men. And the cocktail of the two of those things is really impacting women's wellness.
80 % of autoimmune diseases are diagnosed in women, twice the number of instances of stress, anxiety, and depression. I say women, but a lot of these things are being measured in girls as young as eight. And so the opportunity really is to start these conversations, to break these cycles for the next generation.
Sharon Macey (13:07)
Tailgating on what you just talked about. You've lived internationally and you're Canadian. And so now even living in the States, you're living internationally. And that statistic that you said like 75 % globally of women do all of this invisible labor. How do you compare the different countries and cultures that you have lived in?
you know, on the value and acceptance of this unpaid work?
Lori Sugarman-Li (13:32)
So there are, of course, nuances between countries. There are so many that I haven't had the opportunity to live in, like the Nordic countries that we know take a different approach somewhat to family life. But the overall notion of the societal devaluing of care is a global phenomenon. It is something that I have certainly experienced.
Sharon Macey (13:35)
Mm-hmm.
Mm, more equitable.
Lori Sugarman-Li (13:59)
You know, it's really this, it's this belief that has been bestowed on women that we are somehow better at this work, that we are wired for it, that we are better at multitasking, right? That we have this motherhood instinct or this idea that mother knows best, baby wants mama. And it's, it's this sort of universal language that, you know, forgive me, it's,
It's beautiful to believe, but it's a bit of a scam to suggest that men can't also participate beautifully in this work. And I think the reason that women are such beautiful caregivers is because we do it so much. We have the practice. And we do believe that this is sort of like an inherent ability. But if men would also...
believe this, you know, then they would be able to show up in just the same way. It's not something that's been scientifically based.
Sharon Macey (14:59)
And just like we were sort of trained over the millennium to have this role, obviously we give birth, so that's more But men are trainable animals
Hey, we're going to take a quick break, Lori. And when we come back, we are getting into the weeds about teaching kids and partners the importance of these tasks. And we're also going to talk about your book, Don't Go Away.
Okay, Lori. So when we first spoke, you mentioned something that really resonated with me. You began articulating what you have accomplished in a day and how you are growing from those tasks and those moments. How many of us have been asked by a well-meaning partner, so what'd you do all day? And we cannot answer it because we have done so much.
Lori Sugarman-Li (16:49)
Bye.
Sharon Macey (16:53)
and so many little things that you do and you're not even thinking about it and then you forget about it. And of course we don't write it down. So there's no record of our work. There's no annual review. There's no promotions. There's nothing.
I found that concept just so, so interesting. And I know that goes into your work and into the book.
Lori Sugarman-Li (17:10)
Right, and that goes into the invisibility of the work and the biggest opportunity that we have, especially as it relates to educating children about the weight and the beauty of the work of care is to do it a little bit more loudly and really showcase the scope of it. I mean, it is just a tremendous amount of effort to care for
our home, to care for our cars, to care for our family. And so what I like to suggest is, ⁓ you know, obviously making the invisible visible and you can do little things like, you know, I'm in charge of all of the laundry in my home. And I think I used to want to be, you know, the perfect wife, the perfect mother. And so I would do all the laundry. Right.
Sharon Macey (17:58)
I'll do.
Lori Sugarman-Li (18:00)
I would fold all the laundry and then I would put all the laundry away. But when all the laundry goes away, then there's absolutely no evidence of the cycle. So I thought, what can I do? Let me take one step back. So now I leave the folded laundry on the beds. So when everybody goes into their room, they can see, my laundry has been done. There's effort behind this. There's magic behind this. And so it just gives like a little bit of visibility.
The other thing I do is I very frequently now invite my kids into whatever task I'm working on, either to participate in it with me or just to observe and learn. And this has been huge at building their muscle and understanding the scope.
Sharon Macey (18:45)
those are skills that they will carry with them for the rest of their life.
yeah.
Lori Sugarman-Li (18:49)
That's the
nucleus of all of this. think I think, you know, we're so tempted to sort of insulate kids and protect them from the weight of this work, because when they're little, we feel, you know, like, let's just let them play. Don't, you know, burden them with this kind of stuff. And then when they become a little bit older and get into high school, we think, gosh, they have to focus on their academics. They have to focus on their athletics or.
you know, their creative pursuits or whatever it is to get into college. We don't want to burden them. But if we're being honest with ourselves, holistic parenting is preparing them for that beautiful stage of life. If they get into a great college, but don't know that they have to change their sheets, you know, with regularity or don't know how to make themselves great or don't know how to make themselves a nourishing meal before an exam, they're actually not going to thrive. And then that will impact.
Sharon Macey (19:31)
Or do their laundry. Yeah.
Lori Sugarman-Li (19:41)
their contribution as future partners as well. So absolutely, you're right. The other two things that I recommend to parents, especially trying to educate kids is this is so much more than a list of to-dos, right? The work of home and care is so much more than a checklist. There's meaning behind everything that we do. And if there isn't, by the way, then we shouldn't be doing it, right? If it's not relevant to us or important to us, get rid of it.
But so I love to talk to kids about the why behind the work. So, you know, for example If I were to tell my 15 year old, you know, go change your sheets That's annoying right that fitted sheet navigating that but if I were to say to him buddy I don't know if you're aware but I wanted to let you know that sleeping on clean sheets facilitates clear skin then suddenly he understands
Sharon Macey (20:20)
Thank
Lori Sugarman-Li (20:34)
not only why we do this, but oh, this is actually for me. Like, I have a stake in this and guess what? The sheets are off the bed and the washer, faster than you can blink. With little kids, it's like, the example that I give is keeping the car clean. If you're doing carpools, pickups, drop-offs and whatever, your car likely has a lovely carpet of granola bar crumbs, maybe a wrapper, a banana peel.
Sharon Macey (20:39)
Mm-hmm.
Lori Sugarman-Li (21:04)
You can shout at the kids that the car is a mess, or you can explain to your kids how cars hold value. And as a family, the benefit that you will receive when you go to trade in or sell or whatever your car, you will get more value back as a family if it's in good shape than you will if it's not. And then you start to imagine what you can do with that
Sharon Macey (21:08)
Mm-hmm
Lori Sugarman-Li (21:32)
extra value as a family and it comes back to them.
Sharon Macey (21:36)
And also you can make it funny for little ones and say, I'm not sure when we go to trade in this car if they're really gonna want the granola and that icky banana peel on the floor, right? Yeah.
Lori Sugarman-Li (21:46)
I love it. I love that. Yes.
That's another huge opportunity is gamify things, know, may absolutely make it fun for kids. When I invite my kids in to do tasks, like, of course I want them to be listening to music or watching soccer highlights or whatever while they're folding laundry. Like I want them to enjoy the moment. I don't want them to dread it. And that actually gets me to the third point that I want to share, which is that
Sharon Macey (21:53)
Mm-hmm.
Lori Sugarman-Li (22:12)
energy that we give to this work. I think a lot of families still call this chores, but the definition of sure really is dreaded, unappealing, repetitive, annoying work. But this is the work of nurturing and nourishing, right? And so the opportunity really is to change the energy that we give to it. I'm not suggesting it's not a heavy load. It is, but at its heart, that's it at its heart. This is the work.
Sharon Macey (22:36)
we can give it a kinder name, right?
Lori Sugarman-Li (22:40)
of gratitude for all that we have and for those with whom we share a space. So little tweaks ⁓ go a long way.
Sharon Macey (22:43)
Hmm.
Those are brilliant. Just really rephrasing things in a kinder, gentler way and
in a way that everyone can really understand and get involved with that. Okay, so let's jump into your book
it's called Our Home. For those of us, for people watching on YouTube, there's a picture of it and we're gonna tell you how to get it at the end. So what I loved about it, Lori, is that it's an easy to comprehend read, clearly for kids of all ages.
And what was the moment when you realized that all of the things you've been talking about needed to be in print?
Lori Sugarman-Li (23:21)
So after I had the experience with the insurance agent, I knew that I wanted to contribute to the work of reframing the societal value of care. At the time, I was a stay-at-home mom. I didn't have any kind of a platform. And so I spent a lot of time reflecting as to how I could have a meaningful impact. I wasn't in a position to
change government policy or corporate policy. And I kind of thought, what can I do? And then I thought, well, I've been full time with my kids for 10 years. I've been very involved in their schools and I've been devoted to children's charities worldwide. I can talk to kids. And you know, there are a lot of grownup books talking about
the division of labor and the reframing of stay at home mom and different stages of motherhood and the things that are impacting the wellness of motherhood. But I thought, if I can break the cycle for the next generation and teach kids from the start that this is not only beautiful work, but work for all of us, then I will have had that impact.
Sharon Macey (24:40)
Yes, and I think if you even just change one person, you have had that impact. And I love it. And it's an easy, fun read. rhymes. But it makes the points in a very subtle but loving sort of way.
speaking of words, let's talk about the language around labor in the home. And obviously, different families change how you approach the home, how do we do the garbage dishes, laundry, blah, blah.
Lori Sugarman-Li (25:00)
Yeah.
Sharon Macey (25:06)
How do you reposition how you talk about the domestic tasks? And one thing you said, which I thought was so powerful, is that it becomes the two of you against the task versus one of you against the task and the other partner. Because that automatically makes the other partner the bad person. It's defeated before you begin. So let's talk about that language.
Lori Sugarman-Li (25:19)
Yes.
rights.
Right, exactly.
So in addition to being an author, I'm also a family coach and I support a lot of loving couples who are starting to feel resentments creeping in because of inequity in the domestic load and they feel it start to impacting.
wellness and the family and impacting the way that they ⁓ relate to one another. And you just said exactly what it is, is that they allow that heavy load to come between them instead of facing it unified. And I really love to use Eve Rodzki's Fair Play system and a lot of the coaching that I do. I'm a Fair Play facilitator and I studied with Eve and she's been a fabulous mentor to me. In fact,
Sharon Macey (26:09)
And you are also a Fair Play facilitator, right? Okay.
Lori Sugarman-Li (26:16)
She's the person who first read my manuscript and encouraged me to publish the book. She's been a tremendous champion of mine. And I love her system because what it really does is it makes the work of care take less time and take less space because it is a system and a way of communicating that increases efficiency.
and reduces resentment. there wasn't necessarily a way to involve kids. So her book really focuses on partners. And I thought, gosh, I'd love to extend this to deal in the kids. And so A few language shifts that I really love for the whole family is, we often use the word help.
And somebody might say, well, you My husband's actually a huge help or, know, my kids sometimes help. I think at first it seems like a really beautiful concept that, people are helping, but The implication really is that this work is ours, right? Is, is our load as women and mothers. Exactly, exactly. And you know, that our family is sort of waiting in the wings for.
Sharon Macey (27:25)
And then Every once in a while, people will help us out. OK.
Lori Sugarman-Li (27:33)
direction, for our instruction, for our lists. And what happens when you have helpers instead of owners and noticers is that really the work still stays on your mind and on your heart until it's done. and you can't really release it and experience the benefit of that release. And so the opportunity for families is really full task ownership.
you know, with partners, this is, it's definitely a process and it's a lot of discussions and it's a lot of understanding about how you were raised and how your parents modeled things for you and, you know, what societal definitions you believe and sort of the unlearning of a lot of that. And also again, the belief that this is valuable, beautiful work that contributes to your family's wellness and that we all need to be a part of it. And when it comes to kids,
I suggest instead of inviting kids in to help, Use language that's a little bit more collaborative and also empowering of them. Hey, I'm about to take on this task. Like, I would love to show you how I typically do it so that you can do it on your own someday. Or, hey, this is a big task I'm about to take on. Like, I would love your partnership. You know, things like that. You know, are you, are you?
Sharon Macey (28:53)
and I just noticed the
word help was not in either of those two sentences.
Lori Sugarman-Li (28:57)
Correct. is sort of like a step away from that ⁓ such that again You imply that this is everybody's participation. then the other on the flip side when you're finished something again we love the concept of a thank you and everybody wants to be thanked for effort and contribution but that also goes back to the implication that you have done me a favor because
this is my work, you did a little bit of it, and that was a favor to me, which is not necessarily the model that we want to cultivate. what I say to my kids when they have participated in something is I articulate the meaning that it had. I articulate the contribution that they made, the power in their effort. So not as a favor to me, but as
something that contributed to the wellness of our family and the direct impact that they had. And also I will, if it is something that saved me time, I will acknowledge that, but very specifically I'll say, I thought I was gonna have to fold that laundry. The fact that you did it saved me 45 minutes and I want you to know what I was able to do in those 45 minutes. It was so meaningful to me and I really am grateful that you stepped in.
Sharon Macey (30:17)
I think, yeah,
and I also think saying to the kid, hey, you're really good at this, you know, I'm
Lori Sugarman-Li (30:23)
Yes,
Sharon Macey (30:24)
impressed, right? And praising them for that. they're like, okay, positive feedback loop.
Lori Sugarman-Li (30:23)
exactly.
Yeah. Yes.
you did that so quickly. You did that so beautifully. I'm really in awe. Thank you for stepping in. Yeah.
Sharon Macey (30:35)
Yeah.
Yeah. I love that. So because I know you do coach kids as well, you know, like couples, families, kids. Have there been any memorable, memorable things that the kids have said to you about the work that you're doing with them?
Lori Sugarman-Li (30:50)
Well, the kids that are most involved in and benefiting from this work that I have started to do are my own. And you'll see on my Instagram page that they are actually very involved in a lot of the scenarios and the lessons that we share about how our family flows. And it's really incredible how their muscles really have
built since we started speaking differently, more, sharing this work more loudly. And they really have become noticeers and owners and they take a lot of pride in this. And I want to reiterate, this is not about pawning off work onto kids. This is about
empowering them, letting them know that they're trusted, building those skills as you had articulated for their future independence, for their future partnerships. And also what I want to say is, you know, very often we look at this work of tasks of home as the stuff that we have to do to get to the stuff that we want to do. But I like to suggest that this actually is
the beautiful stuff. This is the stuff of bonding. This is the stuff of connecting. You know, I lost my dad 10 years ago and most of the beautiful memories that I have of him are of us collaborating around the home. You know, we had tasks that we shared where I felt trusted and where I was learning from him. And really, you know, these are the beautiful moments. These are the moments where you should take pictures.
Sharon Macey (32:05)
Stuff of family, yeah.
Lori Sugarman-Li (32:27)
and create memories together.
Sharon Macey (32:29)
I love that. Yeah, that's a really nice suggestion. question for you. If someone who told you 10 years ago or longer that you would be doing this important work right now and be a
author, you would have said.
Lori Sugarman-Li (32:44)
gosh, I mean, I'm so incredibly grateful for the opportunity. I really feel like the universe sort of wanted me to do it. Had I known 10 years ago what I know now, I think I would have been a lot healthier. think, you know, I was really guided in that early motherhood stage by the notion of depletion.
Sharon Macey (32:54)
Mm-hmm.
Lori Sugarman-Li (33:09)
being a virtue and that motherhood and caregiving were inextricably linked and really mostly mine. And so to our absolute detriment, but I believed what society was saying about, you know, the notion that I was better at it, the notion that my kids wanted it from me. And I, I
Sharon Macey (33:19)
health-wise. So many reasons, yeah.
Lori Sugarman-Li (33:32)
I am doing all of this now for that mother that I was 15 years ago who didn't have this community, who didn't have this information, who wasn't empowered in this way and who was, you know, writing thank you notes for baby gifts at midnight because I just thought that I had to when I'm sure those people that I was writing to, if they knew how exhausted I was, they would have said, my God, please don't send me a thank you note, like go to sleep.
Sharon Macey (34:01)
⁓
Interesting, So something that you didn't necessarily see coming, your reinvention, but what you're doing is just so, it's so beneficial to the world and to families. And I would recommend people getting that book because it's such an easy read and it seems so simple to start to implement. And just with the change of like verbiage, I thought that was really special. Okay, Lori, unfortunately our time is
drawing to a close. I feel like I could chat with you all day.
But I have a question that I ask all the amazing moms. I have the privilege of interviewing. And that is, since this is the Mom to More podcast, Lori Sugarman Lee, what is your more?
Lori Sugarman-Li (34:38)
My more is really centered in the regeneration of gratitude and its impact to family wellness and my how is through sparking powerful conversations for families on how we care for one another and the space that we share.
Sharon Macey (34:57)
That's beautiful. Thank you for that. And tell our listeners where everyone can find you online, where can they find the book? And folks, everything is going to be in the show notes, all the links, everything will be there.
Lori Sugarman-Li (35:08)
Thank you so much. So my book, Our Home, The Love, Work and Heart of Family, which you very kindly suggested is for kids of all ages. And I love that you think it can inspire beyond just ⁓ the little kids. It's available everywhere books are sold. My Instagram is at ourhomeourpride. And as I mentioned, I do a lot of fun videos about how our family flows and how I talk to my kids. And I hope that inspires you in your own home. And if you're interested in some of these
articles that I've written you can find me on LinkedIn at Laurie Sugarman Lee
Sharon Macey (35:43)
Fantastic. Laurie, this has been so interesting. I'm so thrilled that we connected with your very colorful pants at Mom2. And actually, I think we connected even before the summit began. We had identified one another as we need to meet each other while we were there. Yeah, we did. Your work is so important.
Lori Sugarman-Li (35:49)
You
We sure did.
Sharon Macey (36:00)
and I'm gonna be sharing this with my kids as they move on and have partners and have families of their own because I think it's that important. So thank you for your time and your wisdom today. Really appreciate you.
Lori Sugarman-Li (36:11)
I'm so grateful for the chance to connect with your community. means so much. Thank you very much.