From SAHM to Legal Trailblazer: Lisa Johnson on Survival, Reinvention, and Fighting Back
In this episode of Mom to MORE®, host Sharon Macey chats with Lisa Johnson, co-founder of Been There, Got Out and a powerful voice for women navigating high-conflict relationships and legal battles.
Lisa is a certified domestic violence advocate, high-conflict divorce strategist, and self-represented litigant whose case was published in the Connecticut Law Journal, a rare honor for a self-represented litigant. Her testimony helped pass Jennifer’s Law in Connecticut, expanding domestic violence definitions to include coercive control. Her reinvention began as she fought to protect her children and herself, ultimately turning her experience into a mission to empower others. A former stay-at-home mom, Lisa now guides people through the toughest parts of divorce and co-parenting.
Tune in as Sharon and Lisa dive deep into how motherhood shaped her decisions, the slow unraveling of an unhealthy marriage, and the power of education and advocacy in reclaiming your voice.
[00:00] Introduction
[00:55] About Lisa Johnson: mom, educator, and advocate
[02:41] Choosing stay-at-home motherhood and early dreams of parenting
[04:41] Recognizing dysfunction in marriage
[07:07] The decision to leave: from fear to action
[10:56] Representing herself in court and building a new identity
[14:25] Creating Been There, Got Out and finding purpose in advocacy
[17:40] Helping others survive family court and toxic co-parenting
[21:10] The role of education in healing and change
[24:55] Advice for anyone feeling stuck in a harmful relationship
[29:03] Why reinvention isn't just survival—it’s transformation
Meet My Guest Lisa Johnson:
Website: beentheregotout.com
If you would like to reach out to Lisa privately: Lisa@BeenThereGotOut.com
Co-Author, Been There Got Out-Toxic Relationships, High-Conflict Divorce, And How To Stay Sane Under Insane Circumstances: https://go.sylikes.com/eYDpcJHxN4cT
Instagram/TikTok/Pinterest: @been_there_got_out
YouTube/Facebook/Twitter @beentheregotout
Podcast: https://beentheregotout.buzzsprout.com/
Looking for More? Follow @momtomore on Instagram, Facebook and TikTok.
@Sharon Macey on LinkedIn.
Keep an eye out for episode #38 of the Mom to MORE® podcast where Sharon is joined by Ashley Flanagan Slaughter, Founder of Sweat For Smiles. Coming soon - you won’t want to miss it ♥
-
Sharon (00:55)
Welcome back to Mom To More.
So I wanted to share with our listeners today that we will be tackling topics that are new to this podcast and not easy to discuss at times. My guest today, Lisa Johnson, created her reinvention out of necessity to save her kids, her wellbeing, and her sanity. If you feel you are in a similar situation and need help, we will have resources available at the end of the episode for you. So a little about my guest today. Lisa Johnson is the co-founder of
been there, got out, a high conflict divorce strategist and certified domestic violence advocate who has successfully represented herself through scores of court appearances. Her case, published in the Connecticut Law Journal, is being used as legal precedent, a rare honor for a self-represented litigant. Her live testimony helped pass Jennifer's Law in Connecticut, the third state in America, to expand its legal definition of domestic violence to include coercive control.
She and her partner Chris coach people in high conflict relationships, divorce, custody battles, and co-parenting hell so they have the chance to have the best outcome in family court and beyond. Lisa and Chris's book, Been There, Got Out, Toxic Relationships, High Conflict Divorce, and How to Stay Sane
Circumstances was published in March of 2023. And their first course, How to Communicate with Your Ex Without Destroying Your Case or Losing Your Mind,
is out now. Lisa is passionate about empowerment through education, has made a huge impact in this space, and no surprise, this mama bear was also a stay at home mom. Lisa, I am thrilled that you are joining me today. Thank you so much for being here.
Lisa (02:41)
I'm so happy to be with you today, Sharon.
Sharon (02:42)
Okay, we're first going to talk about motherhood. You have built a career helping others through high conflict divorce and legal battles. Before all of that, you were a mom first. So my essential mom question, tell us about your kids and what motherhood looked like for you in the early years and was being a stay at home mom intentional? Did you fall into, what did that look like?
Lisa (03:03)
So I always wanted to be a mom. I remember when I was a teenager, I had these fantasies of what my kids would be like. And when I was 21, I backpacked around Europe by myself and then lived in Europe for a while teaching. And I kept thinking that when I had children, I'd be able to share all of these stories and experience with them. So my son was born while I was teaching high school English in Connecticut.
I had planned to stop teaching for about a year and then come back because I love teaching. And then he was born and I so fell in love with him and we were able to make it work. So I decided to remain a stay at home mom. And then I started a whole writing career. And then I started like a book selling business and other online businesses and I just made it work. So I was able to be with him, whole new life with like a bunch of mom friends.
My son was born in 2000 and I'm still in touch with those mom friends. We call ourselves the millennium moms because we all had babies born in 2000. Now it's been 25 years and I just saw some of them last week. So I absolutely love being a mom. I was thrilled to be able to do that. And then my daughter was born while I was working on my first book, which had to do with backpacking around Europe as a rite of passage.
Sharon (04:02)
See ya.
Lisa (04:26)
so, you know, then I had my two kids and I figured even though I love teaching,
I was just going to stay home and figure out other kinds of businesses and was able to manage it. But I just was so grateful to be able to have the privilege of being home with them.
Sharon (04:41)
Right, leaning into family life. is a very special moment.
So that's true. That is true. And that goes on for what, 20 years or something like that? Yeah, yeah, I know. Sometimes I feel like I'm still catching up after all these years. So Lisa, at what point did you realize that you had a problem with your marriage? Like, was there a specific turning point
Lisa (04:44)
Except for the sleep deprivation. That I didn't like.
Yeah, right.
⁓
Sharon (05:04)
or event when you realized something was going south, you needed to advocate for yourself and take matters into your own hands.
Lisa (05:11)
Well, hindsight is always 20-20, it? And I was, speaking of 20, I was with my ex for 20 years. And literally weeks after we got married, I went to visit a friend of mine from college and came back and discovered that he had been having an affair. And I thought, this is crazy. We just got married. I'm leaving. Like, I'm not, I'm not doing this. We had been together for two years at that point.
Sharon (05:14)
It is.
Lisa (05:34)
he begged and pleaded and was like, I'm going to go to therapy and...
He had some other things going on. So it was like, all right, I had wanted him to do therapy anyway, so we'll give him another chance and see. And so he went for a couple of years to therapy. And I just thought, OK, well, it's taken care of. Like, this is not an issue anymore. And we had the kind of relationship where I felt like he was my best friend. There was always things where it was like some distance. And I was never going to be super close to him.
we got along.
And so then in 2013, I discovered these pictures while he was kind of cleaning out his office and immediately realized that there was something that felt very strange. And when I confronted him about it, he admitted that he was having an online affair with someone that he had met on Spotify in another country who was like about 30 years younger, which was just a little bit over my eldest child's age. And I just was like,
my gosh, and he started talking about how this was his girlfriend, even though they'd never met, but he was going to figure out a way to move her here and put her in one of his dad's apartments. And I just was listening to this being like, okay, the marriage is completely over because this person's judgment was what I respected for all those years. He was like seven years older than me. And to hear someone being so completely delusional was terrifying. And in my mind, I was just like,
Sharon (06:48)
my gosh.
Lisa (07:07)
He's crazy, like we're done, we're done. So it took two years after that, which is another longer story to extract myself from the relationship because when you realize these things, or at least for me, wanted, well, I was astonished, but then we immediately went to couples counseling. Unfortunately, it was the same therapist he had used who I didn't realize that was probably not the best idea because
Sharon (07:09)
That is crazy.
Sure.
Lisa (07:31)
he had manipulated her. She believed his story. had no idea what she was dealing with. And we went through six months of that and two more couples counselors. And I felt like I did everything I could until I finally got to the point of just like, this is too painful to stay.
then my new career of being in the legal system for 10 years started.
Sharon (07:49)
Right, so you exited, so clearly this is not a, okay, I'm gonna go be with my girlfriend and you do your thing. He made it very difficult for you.
Lisa (07:57)
No.
Yeah, yeah. And that was another thing is when we finally decided to do the divorce. So that was like two, so 2013 found out all this stuff, all kinds of things came out, you know, too much to get into here. But then in 2015, I was like, we're going to initiate the divorce. And at that point, we, felt like we had worked through, you know, it was impossible to save. And I met with an attorney and he said, yours is going to be really bad. And I thought,
why would you say something like that? Like my ex is a good person, he just did some bad things, but we both seem ready to exit. And then it was the opposite. And my lawyer was right because it took a year and a hundred thousand dollars to get out of that. And then several more years in court of just him basically not complying with our agreement.
Sharon (08:45)
That's crazy.
so
in your website and in your book, you had talked a lot about coercive control. What is that? And what are some red flags that people should be aware of? And this, will also point out, you said that this happens to both men and women.
Lisa (08:59)
absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.
we support male and female victims of coercive control and domestic violence. So we're not like gender specific at all. Coercive control is like a big topic, but it's basically someone's patterns of behavior that kind of humiliate, frighten and cause the person to remain dependent in a number of ways on let's say an abuser. So
Often when we think domestic violence, we think physical abuse. there, the person hurt you physically or was there imminent threat of physical harm? So coercive control, especially in Connecticut and before that, before our state, Hawaii and California took a broader look at domestic violence and decided that especially when determining custody or restraining orders, it can't just be, was that person physically harmed? But were they financially abused? Was there sexual abuse, verbal?
psychological, stalking, isolation, legal abuse. So we have to look at the big picture to figure out what exactly is going on. It's not just physical. And in a lot of ways, we know that emotional abuse can be a lot more harmful than physical because once you get away physically, that person still has control of your mind. And that can take quite a while. Yeah, yeah. We say they're still squatting between your ears. So.
Sharon (10:15)
They're still in your head. Yeah.
Lisa (10:20)
It can take years and years for that to go away and it takes a lot of work.
Sharon (10:25)
And how common is this issue? Like how many men and women
do issues like yours affect?
Lisa (10:31)
Nobody believes it,
because people don't talk about it. It affects one in three women and one in five men. Yeah. Every time I meet anyone and I tell them what we do, always, always, always someone says, that's me. That's someone I love. That's someone I know.
Sharon (10:37)
Wow, that's extraordinary. But you're, yeah.
And that's one of those things that people just keep quiet, right? You're embarrassed. You're thinking I'm the only one and you want to keep it quiet.
exactly when you need the support, right? Yeah.
Lisa (10:59)
Well, there's so much shame associated with it
and people feel like it's just me. And I know for our clients who tend to be in general, like very well-educated, very successful in other areas of their lives, they're looked at as role models. And so when others find out that they're dealing with someone like this, there's this unconscious blaming of like, well, you of all people, I never thought you'd fall for someone like that. Basically like, you're so stupid. How could you not have known without realizing that
people who are abusive, are they master manipulators? This is not something that you consciously enter into. This is something that we all, know, there's cycles, I'm sure you've heard of like the love bombing and then devaluing and then the discard. It's not, everything always starts wonderfully. So it's an insidious form of abuse. And we often hear this metaphor of like the frog in the pot. So,
For example,
if you drop a frog into a pot of boiling water, of course it's gonna jump out. It's not gonna wanna stay there. But what domestic violence is compared to is a frog being put in a pot of cool water and the heat slowly being turned up so the frog doesn't even realize how much pain it's in as the water starts boiling because it's been normal for so long. And that's how coercive control usually happens is that this becomes your normal and you don't realize it. And then people are going,
Sharon (12:16)
Right.
Lisa (12:22)
Well, why did you stay so long or why don't you just leave? It's because your brain chemistry has been altered. It's not that easy. And people on the outside just really don't understand which can isolate a victim even further because they get frustrated because it's illogical. But of course there's ways to heal and that involves getting the right support.
Sharon (12:43)
Right, right. So Lisa, we are going to take a quick break. And when we come back, we are going to talk about your journey into advocacy, legal navigation, and how you laid it all out in a book.
All right, so Lisa, many moms don't see themselves as having like legal skills per se, but we all know that motherhood requires resilience, negotiation, tenacity, organization. So talk to me about what mom skills helped you successfully represent yourself and survive this extraordinarily challenging time in your life.
Lisa (14:24)
Okay, so before this, like I said, I was a teacher. So I taught high school English and my master's is also in education. So I've been a writer since I was a child. I've kept journals since then. Those communication skills were essential in being so successful in doing well in court. And so I think that the power of persuasion, which moms who discipline children.
We all don't realize how we are negotiating all of the time. Like, how do you get your kids to do something? You can't physically make them do it. So those skills, like many of us don't realize all of the skills we have from being a mother, being a parent, but also from our prior jobs. many of our other teachers have been very, very successful in court. People who are in business, accountants, like we have such a wide range of people, but in the course of that relationship, they've...
They've lost their center. They've lost their sense of self and they forget all these skills that they have. So a lot of what I try to do is remind them of like what you can use and kind of validate. Like you have all of these skills, but what we need to work on is emotional detachment because when you're in court, it's a business. And so you're expected to have what's called courtroom demeanor. You have to understand how the system works and you're rolling it. And that's really, really important. And the most important thing you can learn.
is how to be as calm as possible. so what can help is not by anyone saying calm down, but having you be focused and organized on the things that really matter. So a lot of people don't understand what really matters, but once you learn that, and everybody can learn it, here's the custody factors, here's the best interest factors, the alienation factors, you can structure what you're saying into something that matches the court's values and makes you more persuasive.
Sharon (16:13)
And we've all had a master course in that raising kids. And that was really interesting what you just said about people forget that they have those skills, especially moms. And I guess if you're in a relationship like that, you forget a lot of positive, wonderful things about yourself anyway, I'm guessing.
your case is now being used as legal precedent.
Please share what that means and how that might impact other women in similar situations.
Lisa (16:43)
Okay, so the Connecticut Law Journal is basically like case law for our state and all the different states have their own journal.
so that just publishes like maybe a couple of cases every quarter.
and they're at the appellate level. So this is not like general family court divorce stuff. This is like the higher level. So the reason that mine got to the appellate court level was because my ex kept disagreeing.
with all of the decisions that were made
at the family court level. And so he appealed them. And so we had to go to a higher court. Now I was representing myself, and this is post judgment, meaning after the divorce. I did have a divorce for that initial first year. That's where all my money went. And not blaming my lawyer at all, because he was lovely. But he was the one who said, you cannot afford me after this. Your ex is not going to comply. You're going to be back in court.
Sharon (17:25)
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Lisa (17:36)
you need to learn how to do this yourself because he's gonna financially destroy you. So luckily I did start building my case long before I went back. I managed to get modifications in alimony and child support. I got a really good educational support order because my kids were, it was before they went to college, but my ex didn't listen. So he and his lawyers kept arguing that the judge had made a mistake, that there were things wrong, they misused the law. He kept coming up with new things.
Sharon (18:05)
you
Lisa (18:05)
And so
he was able to appeal. And so when you go to the appellate court level, it usually costs about $15,000 on average, I was told, or at least at the time, to hire a lawyer to represent you. And I just thought, I'm not doing it. I already spent too much money. I've had all this success at the trial court level. At the appellate court level, you cannot bring in new evidence. And so I just thought, I'm capable, I can do this, I'm gonna do it. And it's like 20 minutes.
each person has to make their argument. And we did it and then the case got published. So now when other people have a similar situation to mine, can cite my case as case law. So one of the things, and this is getting like really legal, but one of the things that I argued was the doctrine of plain error, meaning that just because somebody disagrees with a judge's opinion or order doesn't mean that they can keep taking you back to court.
Sharon (18:47)
Mm-hmm.
Lisa (19:01)
And so it's like an 11 page single space decision. Lawyers love to read the case, but the lay people, like the rest of us are kind of like, that's like really dense. But anyway, if you have to go to court and you need something that's similar to a situation like mine, you can cite my case to support why a judge should rule the same way as my judge did. That's basically what case law means, yeah.
Sharon (19:10)
Too dense. Yeah.
So interesting. So
interesting. So two follow-up questions to that. Have you ever thought of becoming a lawyer?
Lisa (19:32)
I've been told to become a lawyer, and I used to want to be a lawyer when I was in college, but I love doing what we're doing now instead as a high conflict of war strategist because I'm not geographically limited. Lawyers are also not trained in strategy, they're trained in logic, and the cases that we work with defy logic. I love being able to use my writing skills and communication skills and to have a lot of freedom in what we do.
as part of usually like a team that our clients have where if they're not representing themselves, we make them what we call the teacher's pet of clients for their attorney, because they're the ones taking strategic oversight of their cases. And that's where we basically teach them that they cannot afford to repeat the same relationship dynamic that was in their relationship where over time, you know, their ex got the authority. And so to come out and then say, okay, now I'm hiring a lawyer and giving that person
you know, $25,000 retainer, they're gonna save my life. No, no, no, we're gonna pause here and you're gonna take control and you're gonna run your case like a business. And so you have to realize that no one can save your life, that this is on you and that it's your responsibility to read everything that you signed, to know every motion that's coming up, to be well-prepared and to be in on everything, you know, cause this is your life and your kids' lives. They're the only things that matter. So you have to.
Sharon (20:53)
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Lisa (20:56)
You have to rise to the occasion and it is such an opportunity to change those dynamics in your relationships moving forward.
Sharon (21:04)
And how were your kids throughout all of this,
Lisa (21:06)
I mean, I have to say that when it first happened, I was terrified because my ex basically waltzed out of their lives. You know, here was someone who had been physically present. I didn't think about it till later. He was not emotionally present, probably ever for the kids. but he left. He was, he was busy with his own things and the kids were writing to him and calling him and he was busy doing whatever he was doing. ⁓ and it really caused a lot of destruction in their relationship with him.
He moved into his father's apartment with no plan of ever having them visit, no plan for them to stay, no thought of anything. And so we got a parenting plan together, luckily in mediation, which also saved me at least another 10,000. But it said he had open visitation, he just didn't utilize it.
You know, the long story, but yeah, I mean, again, remember we're dealing with not your normal divorce. So these are the people who have other issues going on. ⁓ these are the things that other people don't tend to understand, you know, cause people say like, well, why would somebody do that if they love their kids? I don't know. Can you tell me? Yeah.
Sharon (21:56)
Strange. Sad. Yeah.
because they're not maybe altogether there, altogether
there. So let's talk about your book, Been There, Got Out, clearly written out of necessity.
And I'm curious, like, what is the first step for a mom who feels trapped in a toxic relationship? And maybe she doesn't know how to begin the process of breaking free.
Lisa (22:33)
Yeah, okay, so in a toxic relationship, one of the most dangerous times is when you're leaving. So whatever the case is, you do not want to tell your ex or your partner like, I'm ready to go, I've had enough. Like that's, you're putting yourself in danger because those people rely on you. And you know, you're the one who's kind of made them look good for a long time. And when you
When you say that you're ready to go, it triggers these feelings of abandonment, which turn into rage and you don't want them to rage at you. So it's very important to hold your cards close to your chest and start figuring out an exit plan. So at the beginning, you you mentioned that I was a state certified domestic violence advocate. And so I got my training from a domestic violence agency, which I wish I had known about early in my stages of getting out.
That's one thing I recommend to everybody is to contact your local domestic violence center because it's so many free resources. So in terms of making a plan to get out, we call that an exit plan. And we always want people to make two different plans. One for longterm, like as you're starting to get all your stuff together and getting your financials and making sure you have copies of your kids' birth certificates and passports and whatever, like everything that you're gonna need to move forward. Definitely talk to a lawyer before you do anything.
And a lot of domestic violence agencies do have some kind of legal thing where they don't take your case, but they can give you basic advice of like, don't do that. And that's okay. But so the exit plan is, you know, long-term to slowly plan it like I did. The other is basically an emergency plan. Like if something happens, what do I do right now? Almost like getting that bag ready when you're about to have a baby and you have to run to the hospital. And this includes even things like making sure if you feel like
you are in danger, park your car backwards. So if you have to leave quickly, you can pull out of the driveway not to wear jewelry, like thick jewelry or scarves because strangulation is one of the most common forms of, yeah, violence. it's, it's, it's one of the most lethal and could kill you in three minutes. So you don't want anything around your neck that somebody within a, you know, in their fury would grab and, and strangle you and putting like an extra set of keys.
Sharon (24:34)
my
Mm-hmm.
Lisa (24:48)
to the car or the house, whatever outside hidden, all kinds of little things to do that again, for free, your local domestic violence agency should be able to have someone go through with you. And there's checklists online. That's stuff that Chris and I do, but we're always like, don't pay us, get it for free. But that's like a great first resource because one of the hardest things is coming out of denial and realizing that something's wrong. One in two people in abusive relationships don't realize.
Sharon (25:01)
Mm-hmm.
Lisa (25:17)
that that's what they're in. I didn't realize it because remember it's been so normalized.
Sharon (25:19)
Yeah.
Right, to you it felt
like it was just the way things were. Yeah,
Lisa (25:26)
Yeah. Yeah.
Sharon (25:28)
I'm like listening to this sort of, you know, with my jaw open because it's thankfully for me very different from the relationship I have, but this is not the first time I have heard this. I've been involved, you know, philanthropically with centers for domestic violence and the stories are extraordinary.
You know, you've had women who say, I'm a highly educated woman.
people ask me, how did you let this happen? Exactly what you said. And it just became normalized. And that I know for a lot of people listening to this,
this could either do one of two things, really hit home or be way out in left field. so, there's, but there's learning opportunities within everything. then you listen, no relationship is perfect, right? No, marriage is perfect.
And we all have to deal with things, but you just took yours to like a hypersonic level in terms of what you had to deal with. So what are some of the support systems then that you and Chris offer to your clients?
Lisa (26:26)
Yeah. Well, we have a bunch of stuff because both he and I are workaholics and we love what we do and we love our clients and we love being busy. So we have what we call like strategy sessions. So people basically hire us and we help them deal with their case, whether it's putting together targeted documentation, presentation, taking strategic oversight. If they don't have an attorney, how to be pro se or self-represented.
I love teaching negotiation and let's see, there's like two more, but the one that the course is on is what we do more than anything with everyone and that's called strategic communication. And so you mentioned our course is called how to communicate with your ex without destroying your case or losing your mind. Communicating with an ex, whether it's during a divorce, because ours are the cases that go on for years or post judgment.
These are the things that cause the most stress amongst our community of like, my gosh, what is my ex gonna do now? If I'm not perfect, they're gonna, I'm gonna get in trouble. They're gonna take me to court. They're gonna change custody. They're gonna take the money away. So they're living with this constant sense of dread of like, when is the next bomb gonna drop? My gosh, I don't wanna mess up what I'm saying. Like if I don't do it right.
you know, something horrible is going to happen to me or to my kids. And you cannot live like that long-term. And so a lot of people in this situation get all kinds of health issues because they don't, they don't deal with like the trauma and the fear. Yeah. So we need to, we need to like work on that. So Strategic communication is one of the best ways to start turning that power dynamic around. also turns hearsay into evidence.
Sharon (27:58)
You're holding everything inside, so not surprised that health issues could arise.
Lisa (28:12)
It protects you from false claims of parental alienation. And it really is a way of communicating with your ex in writing only. So you're writing to that person, but you're writing for the invisible audience of a judge, custody evaluator, guardian ad litem, attorney for the child, child's therapist, whatever. We always want you to present as the best co-parent ever. But at the same time, you're documenting your ex's patterns of behavior over time and the impact it has on your children.
as well as on your relationship with your children. And so, yeah, it's just like, I love teaching communication and that is the thing we see these transformations of people not being as afraid anymore. And so we have this hashtag, it's called from puddle to ninja. so learning how to communicate strategically is what's gonna get you out of your puddle state and into this fear state and actually the name of our whole online program as we're releasing the different courses called.
from fear to fierce in family court.
Sharon (29:12)
Oh, I love that.
perfect headline for that, for sure. So Lisa, your journey is not just about surviving this divorce and all of the emotional and psychological pain that went with it. It's about reinventing yourself afterwards. And I'm blown away here by what you have been through and how you have come out on the other end. so, you know...
What does that look like for you? And how did you go from sort of fighting your own battle to creating been there, got out and helping others?
Lisa (29:44)
I always say I got my best education in the trenches.
like as it was happening. It was absolute torture, but I had no idea of what was to come. And I always think back to like, so I used to run this book sale for our library and I go around and collect book donations. I remember one very clear thing. Like there was an older couple that had called and the man they were probably in their 80s, like
he had to go into some kind of assisted living and his wife, he'd been a professor. His wife was trying to get rid of his books and I went to pick everything up and he started getting really upset and agitated. And I remember her kind of hugging him and being like, you know what, don't worry, I'm not gonna do it. And just like the love between them. And she said, know, at least I think we just can't do it because he's still so attached to them.
And remember going back to my car and crying and being like, I'm never going to have a love like that. Like I, you know, I committed to this relationship. My husband is, I just, there's nothing like that for us, but this is the way it is. so, yeah, yeah. And, and so I can't remember how long that was before like I discovered the double life and all the other stuff, but I was so scared of leaving this relationship, which
Sharon (30:52)
It's a sad realization when that happens, yeah.
Lisa (31:07)
I wasn't happy in, I mean, that's an understatement. But then finally one day being like, you know what? I'm gonna be okay. Hopefully the kids will be okay, but I cannot do this anymore. And taking that leap was terrifying, but my gosh, it was like the greatest thing ever. I mean, in that process, in those past 10 years, like I met the love of my life who's the male half of Been There Got Out.
Like I never ever pictured myself being like thrilled in a relationship, like finding a person that really valued the things that my ex attacked all the time. I never imagined being able to use my skills, which I couldn't go back to teaching because I was in court all the time. I was so resentful being like, now my kids are going off to college, I can go back to teaching and then not being able to, because I was always preparing for trial.
Sharon (32:03)
Hmm.
Lisa (32:03)
And then
being like, okay, actually maybe that happened because I was meant to do this. And instead of teach at a high school, be able to teach on a global level and be able to improve men and women's lives all over the world through this like awful experience. And it's one of the most rewarding things to see our clients and our community like use what we've learned and to send us their stories that, you know, we gather and we like to share with other people and our little puddle to ninja.
section of our newsletter.
know those balloons outside like used car dealerships, like they go like, woo, like that's our symbol. So whenever we have like a little mini one and we have this weekly legal abuse support group and when people come in, they'd be like, guess what happened? We'll like pull out our little balloon man like, you get the balloon man, like that's awesome. Yeah, and also I don't think I mentioned it, but so we do these strategy sessions and one of the other services that we offer as a client perk is we have these
Sharon (32:37)
Mm-hmm. ⁓ right.
That's great. That's great.
Lisa (33:00)
weekly legal abuse support groups where we blend our male and female clients together, which is highly unusual in the world of domestic violence. But we want our clients to develop empathy for each other. And I think men in general don't have as many resources. So it has been amazing to see women and men come together and really understand each other's perspectives and empathize with each other. But what's also incredible is to see our female
victims supporting male victims, like giving them actual strategies and men being like, my gosh, thank you so much. Like it's so cool. Yeah. Right. Right. Right. Right.
Sharon (33:37)
Right. Well, but they're both victims. just different sexes. That's all. Yeah. I mean,
you can argue a victim is a victim. It just looks different and different, different.
Lisa (33:45)
Right, right. So it's different,
but for them to really share it and support each other because all of them heal faster because there is that sense of community and everyone is dealing with an extremely difficult ex. So like you come into the group and it's like, I got it. Like I totally, you know, I totally get it. We have our babies, like our people that are early in the process. And then we have our grizzled veterans.
And I love seeing like a baby turn into a grizzled veteran and like the newbies that come in, they'll be like, yeah, that was me. Yeah, I was suicidal too. I was homeless too, but I'm really good and you can do it and you know, don't make these mistakes or like, you're doing the wrong thing. It's so wonderful. Like I just love what we do.
Sharon (34:26)
That's incredible. And also just
the personal sense of accomplishment that you have been through hell and you have come out on the other side. You're a very different person than you were when you went into it. You're smarter, you're wiser, you're far more resilient. And you have skills that you now know you can depend on for the rest of your life.
Lisa (34:45)
Yeah, and you just reminded me. So one of our clients recently said, you know, not that I'd wish this on anyone, but if this hadn't happened, I would have been a doormat my whole life.
Sharon (34:55)
But what a testament to the work that you do with them. That's extraordinary, Lisa. Yeah, this whole conversation has been mind blowing for me. So I wanna ask you,
since this is the Mom2More podcast,
Lisa Johnson, what is your more?
Lisa (35:10)
So my more is educating people about this topic and taking it out of the shadows and getting people together more to support each other and move forward.
one of the next projects that we're working on is our book. It's our second book and my third book. And it's about how to handle when your ex is turning the kids against you. Since that is unfortunately one of the biggest issues in our community that has whole new levels of shame.
So I'm really excited about that. And that's also one of our courses coming up. I think the important thing is, again, for people to learn that there's resources out there who really understand. Like, we welcome you into our community. And that first step is getting in touch with some support.
Sharon (35:57)
Terrific. So perfect segue into where can listeners find you online. Folks, everything is going to be in the show notes. And also, you want to give an email, if people want to reach out to you where they can do that, if they feel that they are in a situation that requires the support and the knowledge and the education that you provide.
Lisa (36:16)
Okay. So quick email, super easy. And it's going to tie to everything else is Lisa at been there, got out.com. Our website is been there, got out.com. We are all over everywhere. Instagram is my home base, but just look up been there, got out. We have a podcast. It's called been there, got out. We have a YouTube channel, been there, got out. Our book is called been there, got out with the subtitle. And then the next one is probably also going to be called been there, got out with a different subtitle. So
Super easy. It's just Chris and I, there's no like VA that's going to talk to you. Just reach out anytime. Our website has a red button on the homepage that you could book a free discovery call, which is a Zoom with Chris and I, where we'll talk to you and figure out what's going on and how we can help you moving forward. yeah, we want to save as many people as possible from what we ourselves went through because there's so much you can do.
to protect yourself and your kids and to do it properly as early as possible is gonna help everybody moving forward. But I guess my biggest goal is preventing intergenerational trauma.
Sharon (37:21)
Lisa Johnson, my gosh, I am blown away. I've got so many things going on in my head right now, but what an extraordinary journey you have been on.
how you have reinvented and come out on the other side stronger, wiser, you're smiling.
You are empowered. I'm so grateful for your time today, because this has been an incredible episode on so many levels. And I know that if there are women out there who have the need for this additional support, they can find it with you. So thank you for that.
Lisa (37:53)
Now my pleasure and thank you so much for hosting and talking about this very uncomfortable topic.